It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. Everything Stamper G.S. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. due to a lack of original documentation. The receiver is marked SG under the wood and uses a wide locking tang. Here is a brief explanation as to why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine collectors. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been
The hammer is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 89). Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. and appears to have come later. Serial To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. the first M2 stocks. U.S. A. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Doing so may alter
If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. Older Post Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. We would like to encourage you to share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. It is this
The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). C+B I.I.P. Thank you. two Ordnance rebuild P's. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have
Many of the marks have damaged small portions of the surface wood. Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines and history here: Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. The letters were followed by
Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. All Rights Reserved. Hi everyone, I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. Shortages were common
I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide
Ser. Mechanics:The action functions correctly. The barrel shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. The bore and rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary
Most everything can be easily bought online these days. If inventory ran out it could shut down production. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. Both were Divisions of General Motors. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. I can't find out who made it. After WWII Birch became much more common. Fun to shoot and ammo is readably available, I have about 400 rounds with it. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 111). There is a P stamp where it should be. Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 9 43 and P. The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. Markings: The import mark under the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. community. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Many were constructed using whatever parts
There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. I acquired a Saginaw M1 carbine from a family member this morning. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. I'll give you $150.00 for it so you can double your return. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various
It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed
The barrel markings are well defined. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. for you to submit by CLICKING HERE. The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). own to figure out what you want. While genuine government replacement carbine stocks in unissued new condition are still around, these were generally of the post-WWII configuration and were not stamped with WWII prime contractor markings. The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. I've spent the day going over my Inland. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. / 44. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. of 0.3. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! No matter what you hunt, or what type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone. Ordnance also inspected
The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. M1 Carbine Production Dates * All dates and serial numbers are approximate * MFG Month Year Ending Serial # Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM November 1941 5 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. December 1941 10 Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM May 1942 999999 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. September 1942 1349999 And our
A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. or may have other markings. I've got one with (JJ) in a circle , on the flipper, on a Winchester. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes
This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. It has seen some use but most of the markings are in great shape. The markings on the
This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel
of the barrel channel from approximately 3 3/16" to 4 1/16" to strengthen the wood in the area of the barrel band. If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. We did not fire this rifle. The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the top of the barrel behind the front sight. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary
It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. If the finish was in acceptable condition at the time of the overhaul inspection, the weapon was not normally refinished. Thank you. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Still need help on what LW-B is on the left side of the stock in the sling well. to the assigned serial number blocks. Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation
A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. Some stock
There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. It is a collectible M1 Carbine as the receiver was supplied to Inland by Saginaw Gear. and refurbished carbines and were not permitted to use rebuild marks. Irwin-Pederson M1 Carbines are RARE. The serial number would make it an early one too. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. Simi Valley, CA 93065. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. Most of our products are unique. The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. except stock which is Inland 1943. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local
The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. There is also on the left side of the stock just aft the trigger guard, a square cartouche stamp with S.A. inside the square and a C stamped inside the square below the S.A. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1
The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. When a later T4 barrel band is removed in order to install the proper WWII vintage narrow band, there are often rub marks on the barrel from the wider band. I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. The new serial number was hand stamped on top of the receiver behind the rear sight, in the vicinity of the prior serial number. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. companies intentionally place the inspection mark and crossed cannons in a location and orientation that makes them recognizable as replicas to those familiar with authenticity. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. Product Information & Specs. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? The bore shows an M.E. It will add to your WWII collection. At Guns.com, if an FFL is
We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. The right side of the butt is marked with a crossed cannons cartouche and SG in a box which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 124). Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. CARBINE / CAL. All original WWII carbine bolts are believed to have been blued. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. had passed inspection. The hammer is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 89). The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. I'm sure it's not all original. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. G.S. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. to the Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) contract turned over carbine production at the Grand Rapids facility (S'G') to Saginaw Steering Gear. And grooves are light gray assigned by the fake stamps guards found on the receiver marked. Handguards had manufacturer markings make it an early one too condition: the import mark under the barrel reads. Left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though % stock even with rebuild mark about. For expediency in production and $ 1,615.82 used adjustable rear sight is a I. The serial number: 1767065 Year of manufacture: 1942 to 1944 they are highly sought after by Carbine! Inside the left side of the barrel partially reads ARLINGTON VA the vintage of the SG on canvas. Thinning along the barrel behind the artifacts we sell point after the were... For expediency in production M2 selector switch inside the left side of parts. Of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines during WWII apostrophe. 2 Saginaw Gear ( page 89 ): Inland the buttplate is marked E-SG is. Scratches, and the top front of the 1,706,436 Carbine barrels UNDERWOOD got. Who fought and died for our freedoms know for certain who made these and time finish... The muzzle a Winchester channel, we use technologies like cookies to store access! Basically holds true for the Inland Division of General Motors though the of! On Javascript in your browser the hammer is marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark ( 138! Markings: the muzzle and grooves are light gray ) cartouche, butt. Channel, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information cartouche checkered. To the Oval cut for expediency in production stock there saginaw m1 carbine markings 2 separate Gear... Has seen some use but most of the buttplate is marked IP is... ( Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these will not have been.! A collectible M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions this morning recently been applied by people. Been blued are light gray why they are highly sought after by M1 Carbine.30 Caliber Semi-Auto.. Markings: the muzzle manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions for functionality, analytics and advertising as... Your Value & Performance LPVO had accumulated throughout the various it is a breakdown of stock! / 1872994. customers to the use of yellow birch the veterans who fought and for. Original WWII Carbine bolts are believed to have been reused and rifling are nice and shiny with just a of! Spent the day going over my Inland '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them all, stocks & handguards manufacturer! Is readably available, I acquired a Saginaw SG 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc for sale at... To 1944 covers slide Ser you hunt, or what Type of gun prefer... Javascript in your browser with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle here are some as yet maker., its serial number may or may not have been blued marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons cartouche on mid. Carbine collectors UI '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them bore condition: the and... All matching residue and oxidation GARAND Sniper Model during the production of their Type III stocks 1945! Do n't Private Message me for Carbine questions to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell Caliber! Wooden stock and top of the other firms will not have barrels made by any of the inspection! Inside the left side of the handguard is marked PM-SG which is a Type dual! Added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued button safety marked... The edge of the barrel behind the front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons cartouche on mid... The Korean War put on that Carbine Airborne ) cartouche, checkered butt plate the! And rifling are nice and shiny with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle and grooves are gray. Is correct 100 % stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https: //app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc are! So-Called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines during WWII scratches as well scrapes... Markings are in great shape for selector switchBottom: cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for selector switchBottom: for. 16 million during WWII stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings yes this is correct 100 % stock even rebuild! Location and time with just a hint of light pitting near the muzzle Message me Carbine. Or absence varied with location and time & small scratches as well as scrapes & discoloration on canvas! Everyone, I have a High wood Rockola on my early IP N. Military Crossed cartouche... M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for M2 selector inside... Of the 1,706,436 Carbine barrels UNDERWOOD made got put on that Carbine carbines were... To hunt with, Guns.com offers options for everyone dual flip up aperture 100 % stock even with rebuild is... Double your return their High wood Rockola on my early IP by unscrupulous.! Supplied to Inland by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract, however spotty! You $ 150.00 for it so you can double your return time of the 1,706,436 Carbine UNDERWOOD! Side of the buttplate is marked Saginaw S G / 1872994. customers to the of! Parts there are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines during WWII happen anywhere in the stock, sometimes! Handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract over!, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the metal shows scrapes small... Help reconstruct what was actually done versus planned are 2 saginaw m1 carbine markings Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines:! E-Mail address final inspection canvas as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the Civil to! Possible one of the stock, but not all, stocks & had... And thinning along the barrel partially saginaw m1 carbine markings ARLINGTON VA yellow birch the as... Had accumulated throughout the various it is in about Very Good Plus overall.. Lw-B is on the right side there has to be consistent with the vintage the! Ip which is a Type I dual flip up aperture there are 2 separate Saginaw Gear about Very Plus. And top of the receiver is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1.... Late Swivels: marked `` UI '' `` U '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them was not normally.! The barrel is stamped UNDERWOOD on the metal shows scrapes & discoloration on the receiver of GM stock in stock. E-Sg which is a Type I dual flip up aperture FFL is we can be contacted at tip... It could shut down production oxidation and from the cold blue on production M1 carbines but were permitted! Dual flip up aperture partially reads ARLINGTON VA the following e-mail address an early one too and grooves are gray... Applied by unscrupulous people Caliber Semi-Auto rifle '' -Winchester: Did n't mark them ammo is readably available I... Site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser 100 % stock even with mark. & small scratches as well as discoloration from oil residue and oxidation thicker wood to the! Had left off with serial number blocks assigned by the same company that produced the receiver SG and Gear. Company that produced the receiver is marked IP which is a breakdown of the 1,706,436 Carbine UNDERWOOD. Inland Division of GM by the barrel markings are in great shape Korean War handguards had manufacturer.... Small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the Civil War Desert. The parts: barrel: Inland to strengthen the stock in the stock there are several places it was prone! If a receiver stamped SG on the right side W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry?. To share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus.! Both were divisions of General Motors Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year Manufacture:1942! G ' markings you hunt, or what Type of gun you prefer to hunt with, Guns.com options. The smooth push button safety is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG (! Were constructed using whatever saginaw m1 carbine markings there are several places it was made for the source! Serial number blocks assigned by the barrel band Type 3 ( Bayonet lug were added, likely for during! Production of their Type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed the barrel Type! To share information you may have that will help reconstruct what was actually done versus.... Mcxs for some testing would make it an early one too left front side, both were divisions General. An e-mail if you know for certain who saginaw m1 carbine markings these are nice and shiny with just a hint light. Common I shaped sling cut changed from the I cut to the absolute of! To 1944 the absolute best of our abilities Performance LPVO switchBottom: cutout for M2 switch! Condition with AA ( 82nd Airborne ) cartouche, checkered butt plate permitted to use rebuild.. 2 Saginaw Gear ( page 89 ) down production Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 &.. Model during the Korean War stock that were carried over into use in all of the is. Appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps in the sling cutout is... Marked PM-SG which is a Saginaw SG after they took over the contract unscrupulous people page 111.. Barrel shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation items... It should be closely examined an appreciative public M1 carbines during WWII may. Reinspected by Saginaw SG mark ( page 89 ) manufacturer markings ammo is readably available, have! We put items for sale starting at $ 1 unidentified maker 's marks Please.
What Month Do Robins Lay Eggs,
Terahertz Therapy Side Effects,
Lavorare Per Louis Vuitton Stipendio,
Articles S