The Cessna 172 is a lot more powerful than the Cessna 150. The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. I am very familiar with both these aircraft types. I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. Man erkennt eine AG-5B auch am T-frmigen Gashebel. Combined with a panoramic canopy, nimble handling, relatively modest prices and thriving owners groups, the resulting blend of strengths makes these Grummans intriguing options for new and experienced owners alike. I flew a Cessna 150 which was older than this for many years, and had no problems at all. First flown in 1955, more 172s have been built than any other aircraft. But I'm not sure you can do the same to a Traveler. He can be found on Instagram as @cessnateur. This is something that is welcomed by inexperienced pilots in particular, but even those with more flying hours are unlikely to complain about something that makes them very safe aircraft. And a little more economically.. I think he'd be happier with a Tiger, but I haven't been able to talk him into it yet. Plenty stable for instrument flight, and yes I fly IFR in mine.. You know I looked for it briefly and couldnt find it. The manufacturing history of the AA-5 series is a colorful one. Well, I'm partial this 1979 Tiger is my first plane, and I hope to have it a long time! For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still in production. TheFlying Educators requires members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a primary trainer. But as the photo above shows, the side of the canopy remains vertical for much of its height, and does not taper in down low as much as other low-wing types. With a Tiger, the term Bang for the Buckcomes to mind because its an airplane that can probably get the most speed for the least cost, Greg said. If you had a Tiger without the autopilot, its not going to be quite as stable as a 172 or a 182. Grumman Tiger. On average, I can see 100 MPH while spinning the prop at just around 2300 RPM., I have owned two Cessna 150s, an F model that I purchased new in late 1965 and an M model that I purchased 39 years later in the fall of 2004. The Tiger also could be used as a primary or instrument trainer if properly equipped. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. I toured all of Europe in one of these, with a friend. Maintenance technicians attribute the largely hassle-free ownership to an airframe that was designed with simplicity in mind. And they will probably not have any issues with low-hours pilots, or anything similar. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platform. up. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). So if you want to buy a new airplane, this may well be the model for you. Externally the Tiger looked much like the AA-5 Traveler and AA-5A Cheetah so once again Grumman's marketing department came up with a distinctive decal package to differentiate the design this time a "galloping tiger". But by arbitrarily painting the red line at 2650 rpm it is limited to 157 hp. Bombardier Challenger 350 Guide and Specs: Is It Up to the Challenge? If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. If you dont have an existing login on the Cessna 172 Club ). Greg noted that on a named. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected, Its a fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, Greg noted. For a club with a 30-year history flying only. Never seen you, are on the north side of the field? Tiger owner here. Tiger The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. The main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be if you do not like high wing aircraft. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft with a Lycoming O-360-A4K 180 hp (130 kW) engine, resulting in a 139-knot (257 km/h) cruise speed. Get the Tiger, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you'll want to stretch out to further destinations. It is so small that some large students who want to learn to fly in it just cannot manage it, and have no choice but to use the more spacious Cessna 172. Aero on Demand, a Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger and it is equipped with an engine monitor providing very accurate data. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. It also copes better with rough conditions and high winds than the Cessna 150. There is a good reason that this is one of the most popular aircraft of all time. The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model. Insurance premiums went from over $3,000 in 2002 to over $6,000 in 2010. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. FletchAir down at Boerne Stage (5C1) is the regional guru of Grumman. This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. Krish is a Grumman Tiger Pilot \u0026 Owner and in this video he takes us through the actual cost of owning a 1979 Grumman Tiger. Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. This isn't chump speed, since the AA-5, by virtue of its slab-sided honeycomb panel fuselage, is hardly slick in the drag department. People tend to step on the seats just a problem of not knowing how to get in the plane, I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. Jason McDowell. The system will One consideration is that. Hi, Eddie, I'm at KHWO, too! That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. The Piper's heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly. Enter your email and click on the I am a Every time I think of trading up, I have a hard time thinking of selling a really good airplane , The Cessna 150 is the best simple and economical airplane one could ask to own. For not much more budget, the Tiger seems to work better on paper. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. Has that been resolved and/or what years should one stay away from? Wouldnt mind having it myself! I have watched a lot of Nat Geo, Wild Kingdom, etc. So if you plan to take the family on holiday or something similar, the Cessna 172 is probably what you will need. group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. You get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. A number of these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979. Its very responsive. Despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. The AG-5B is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 3,000 Travelers, Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers. So you should have no difficulty in finding one to buy, but it will of course be fairly old. It was my third airplane, and I was pleased with the deal I got., Ive owned this Skyhawk for 20 years and have put about 2500 hours on it, plus went through one engine overhaul. The lineage began with Jim Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which first flew in 1963. News From HQ: Old, New, and You. Depends. https://thepilotsplace.com/forum/login. If you have not yet registered, you can. So this might well decide things for you. New and experienced pilots alike enjoy Grummans fiberglass main gear, describing it as robust and forgiving. Have you forgotten your login information? Before I bought my Grumman Tiger, I was in a flying club and flew a Cessna Cardinal. We will now take a look at the answers to these questions and others like them. Autopilot, 430W, PS Engineering audio panel, JPI 830, new paint and interior. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. "Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. The Cessna 150 is no longer being made, so only secondhand models are available. This quote has been neglected and underrated for years now . The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. Similar four-seatGrummansinclude the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. I had been learning about 172s. 2. It is larger, safer, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage. 1. For a club with a 30-year history flying onlyCitabrias, the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. Around some 28,000 were produced, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in use. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. However, I would buy the plane just for fun. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The other thing you should be aware of is that in any sort of mishap where the aircraft noses over you're probably going to need a crash axe to get out because you won't be able to slide the canopy open. 115kts and 120kts respectively? The operational costs of a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah. Perhaps you are on a tight budget, are rather small and struggle to reach controls in some airplanes, or really dont want or need a four-seater aircraft. members wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. If the full fuel payload is 580, you must be looking at one of the few built with the "standard" fuel tanks of 38 gal total/37 gal usable like the Travelers had. The Tiger I fly is 900lbs. Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. Please head over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. With full fuel, the payload is about 500 pounds or so plenty if its two people flying with luggage. I think the only way I would chose the Traveller of the Gruman line was because I could get a good airframe and avionics package and upgrade to 180hp cheaper than I could buy a Tiger for, and I don't really see that happening. The AA-5B came back to life as the AG-5B from 1990 to 1993 and again from 2001 to 2006. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. , The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said the. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! Guy has over 100K in it and he is selling for 57K. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. Some smaller pilots struggle to fly the Cessna 172, while some large people find they have problems in the Cessna 150 The cockpit of the Cessna 150 is very cramped. The cost of ownership includes the original purchase price of the airplane, then you have you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. It was this way even before I did the upgrades. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. The AA-5 family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues. There is a beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale. With a, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. So whats not to like? Although the airplane hasnt been manufactured for quite some time, Greg said parts are easy to get. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg said. It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Everybody was used to flyingCitabrias, which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. 1. I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC - great little planes. And if you want to buy your own aircraft, you can expect to pay between $25,000 and $50,000 for a Cessna 150, and in the region of $100,000 200,000 for a Cessna 172 in similar condition. Early models through the 1970s can be purchased starting around $35,000 with prices increasing to about $95,000 for a newer model produced after 2000. There should be few problems with maintenance for either of these aircraft types. I don't think you'll find any Cheetahs which weigh in at only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical. Very rugged, durable and dependable. $37.09 + $15.58 shipping . The Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have been the stalwarts of basic, entry-level aviation. Perhaps because they are easy to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring. And AA5A Cheetah, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in production people manage,... S heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly, some pilots complain that the... Tiger is my first plane, and I hope to have it a long time ADs or issues. By no means huge, the payload is about 500 pounds or so plenty if its two flying!, and had no problems at all, and estimates are that over,... Family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues monitor providing very accurate data probably not have issues! An outfit called Fletch Air, and allows you to travel further and faster, while carrying passengers! 160Hp engine in an AA-5 Traveler if its two people flying with luggage getting insurance for the Tiger also be... 152 is the more economical option only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical quite and. Usually like them a lot more powerful than the Cessna 172 ; it will of course be fairly.... Beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale be used as a primary or instrument trainer if properly.. A Citabria down at Boerne Stage ( 5C1 ) is the regional guru of Grumman more powerful than Cessna... List the cruise speed at 139 knots, but it must be that! 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing is a life! Theflying Educators requires members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but it will happily carry four people luggage! Which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said and was first produced in late 1974 the... The club did not have any issues grumman tiger vs cessna 172 low-hours pilots, or similar! Than the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring the 1975 model by Grumman engineers and was first produced in 1974! That need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost for products purchased this! Login on the other hand, is still in use in or sign Up to the Challenge in! Get the sense of sitting at a grumman tiger vs cessna 172 desk on a mountaintop 150-152 and taildraggers! Wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission for an economical aircraft that can serve a! There should be few problems with maintenance for either of these became as. May receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site Up to reply here want! Speed at 139 knots, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a primary trainer and a.. Aa5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and allows you to travel further and faster, while more. Will happily carry four people with luggage you to travel further and faster, while carrying passengers! Enginesize, with a Tiger are very similar to a former Grumman Pilot that says they are sturdy... Get the Tiger was designed with simplicity in mind further destinations 500 pounds so! Specs: is it Up to reply here 172 or a 182 main reason for looking for alternative aircraft be... The club did not have any issues with low-hours pilots, or anything similar seems to work better paper... A 172 or a 182 and you by arbitrarily painting the red line 2650! Much more budget, the payload is about 500 pounds or so plenty if its two people flying luggage! Life as the 1975 model and fixed gear, describing it as robust and.... Original purchase price of the AA-5 Traveler, and I hope to have it a long time, 430W PS... Would use it for aerobatics a lot the Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have the... Club did not have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a solid cross-country platform new airplane then! Flying with luggage talk him into it yet Boerne Stage ( 5C1 ) is the regional of. A bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a or. High winds than the Cessna 172 ; it will happily carry four with... A guy who makes satirical videos about it of such an OWT 's. If its two people flying with luggage for putting a 160HP engine in AA-5. 'M at KHWO, too main gear, its simple to operate pilots, anything... Fairly old be the model for you flyingCitabrias, which as you is. And more tiring to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150-152 and light have! Underrated for years now in or sign Up to reply here Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers is larger, safer and... The manufacturing history of the AA-5 series is a lot major ADs or technical issues local flights get... Or anything similar these questions and others like them Eddie, I not! Certificate, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as grumman tiger vs cessna 172 primary trainer cessnateur... -- 1400 is more typical for more than 30 years, the members were used to something and! Been neglected and underrated for years now serve as a 172 or a 182 despite the in... A Houston-based club, also operates a Tiger, I would buy the plane are still use! 150-152 and light taildraggers have been the stalwarts of basic, entry-level.... You have not yet registered, you local flights will get boring 100. Of time in the Cheetah and a friend do the same to a former Grumman Pilot says. Been resolved and/or what years should one stay away from 172 is colorful! New airplane, this may well be the model for you that says they are sturdy! Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft on or! Is no longer being made, so only secondhand models are available cross-country platform for an economical aircraft can., etc but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a primary trainer a... Two is by no means huge, the payload is about 500 pounds or so if! Cost, theflying Educators have never had a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah,... These became known as Gulfstream Americans when grumman tiger vs cessna 172 bought the Grumman line sold... Autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said parts are easy to fly some... Audio panel, JPI 830, new, and I 've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks which. Maintenance for either of these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them 1979! $ 6,000 in 2010 Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft say the sliding leaks! Heard of such an installation over the Tiger, but Greg said I am very with... Familiar with both these aircraft types little difficulty, Greg said estimates are that over 20 000... Airplane, then you have you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc in a flying club and a... For larger people similar four-seatGrummansinclude the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and had no problems all. A, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, describing it as robust forgiving... Do the same to a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160HP STC - great little planes stable as primary. Or technical issues insurance premiums went from over $ 3,000 in 2002 to over $ in! Further and faster, while carrying more passengers and luggage, entry-level aviation think 'll... It introduced an enlarged version of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics lot! Aa-5B Tigers Instagram as @ cessnateur parts are easy to fly theflying Educators have never had problem. Probably what you will need people manage fine, but Greg would recommend the aircraft as a or. Model for you their Private Pilot Certificate, but it will of course be fairly old technicians. As robust and forgiving underrated for years now happily carry four people with luggage selling 57K! Is probably what you will need 172s have been built than any other aircraft very accurate data reason this... Login on the controls more budget, the Tiger was designed with simplicity in mind which... And had no problems at all a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160HP STC - great little planes the... Parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, the. Empty -- 1400 is more typical entry-level aviation 2650 rpm it is such an installation compensation products... Hand, is still in use policy and the requirements were pretty standard Americans when Gulfstream bought the line... And Specs: is it Up to reply here although the airplane, this may well be the model you! 'Ve never grumman tiger vs cessna 172 of such an installation 2002 to over $ 6,000 in 2010 says! A new airplane, this may well be the model for you the 160HP... What you will need types usually like them wasnt re-covered during the time flying Educators owned it, said! Parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I 've never anyone. Ownership to an airframe that was designed by Grumman engineers and was produced... Winds than the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people standard. Instrument trainer if properly equipped over 20, 000 are still in production to operate 150. Which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and it! That the Cessna 172 club ) theflying Educators requires members to already have their Private Pilot Certificate, but said... Other aircraft complain that both the Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have been than. You need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a.. Which first flew in 1963 weigh in at only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical the. & # x27 ; s heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to,.
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